Ken Burns, one of the documentary world’s most revered storytellers, joined Conan O’Brien on his popular podcast, Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend, for what initially seemed like an intellectual discussion but quickly evolved into a mix of playful banter about reading preferences, history, and yes, even Fifty Shades of Gray.

History vs. Fiction: The Eternal Debate

The conversation started as Ken Burns revealed his well-documented (pun intended) addiction to history books. Burns shared that while his wife adores fiction, he struggles to embrace novels, often jokingly comparing them to "eating my vegetables." For Burns, what drives him to pick up a book is his deep curiosity about "what happened." Fiction, for all its artistry, doesn't scratch that itch for him—it’s "just made up," as he humorously put it.

Burns’ aversion to fiction isn’t for lack of exposure. He admitted to enjoying historical novels like The Killer Angels, which was pivotal in shaping his iconic documentary The Civil War. According to Burns, reading that book in December 1984 was the spark behind his decision to create a comprehensive exploration of the Civil War—a project his father questioned (“What part of the Civil War?” Burns recounts his answer: "All of it.")

It’s clear Burns approaches storytelling, whether through books or documentaries, as an avenue to unveil truths about history. Yet Conan—armed with his comedic instincts—challenged Burns’ stance by defending the imaginative license of fiction. “You’re going to lose Shakespeare,” Conan argued, noting that fiction provides its own unique insights into the human condition. To Conan, fiction’s ability to "focus on interior lives" is just as valuable as history’s focus on verifiable events.

Sona Steps In: Why Not Try 'Fifty Shades of Gray'?

It’s at this point that O’Brien’s assistant and frequent podcast contributor, Sona Movsesian, added a humorous twist to the conversation. Sona wasted no time pointing out that Conan reads plenty of history but steers clear of books like Fifty Shades of Gray. The playful exchange led to quite the proposal—why not combine the Civil War that Burns loves with the racy, boundary-pushing content of Fifty Shades of Gray?

Sona ribbed Conan for ignoring her reading recommendations entirely before launching into mock enthusiasm over Ken Burns tackling the infamous series as his “next documentary.” The absurdity was not lost on Burns or Conan. Burns jokingly distanced himself, quipping that while his documentary The Civil War touched on the “blue and the gray,” an adaptation of Fifty Shades would take an entirely “bluer” tone. Conan capped the joke with a sharp punchline, imagining the Civil War "with spanking."

Ken Burns’ Mastery of History

Though the humor dominated this part of the podcast, the episode was also a testament to Burns’ unparalleled commitment to historical storytelling. From The Civil War to The Brooklyn Bridge and beyond, Burns has built a monumental career uncovering how pivotal moments shaped America’s identity. The director’s insights on projects like The Killer Angels and lesser-known novels such as The Raven—a biography of Sam Houston—showcase how deeply immersed he is in history, both as an artist and an intellectual.

It’s also fascinating to learn how Burns connects threads that may seem unrelated. He recalls his discovery of Sam Houston’s larger-than-life story—fit for a modern blockbuster—and how elements of Houston’s political career, personal tumult, and frontier escapades remain stranger than fiction. Burns' encyclopedic knowledge brought home a key point: sometimes real events overshadow even the wildest fictional narratives.

Humorous Takeaways and Meaningful Insights

At its heart, this podcast episode reflected the timeless tension between history and creativity. Burns’ passion for authenticity became a counterpoint to Conan’s appreciation for the imaginative and fantastical. Through humor and camaraderie, the two explored how the storytelling world is enriched by both perspectives.

The mention of Fifty Shades of Gray may have been tongue-in-cheek, but it underscored the broader question of what makes a story resonate: is it the raw, factual weight of history, or the emotional truths of fiction? Burns argues that history holds unparalleled drama, but Conan and Sona remind us that fiction builds a bridge to our interior lives. Perhaps the answer lies somewhere in the middle.

Burns may not be diving into Fifty Shades anytime soon, but the joke made a point. No matter the genre, the stories we consume reflect the worlds we want to explore. And whether you’re with Burns poring over a Civil War biography or with Sona advocating for Christian Grey, the conversation around storytelling remains endlessly entertaining.